'The end is nigh for China's Communist system'

Harry Wu has spent a lifetime fighting for human rights in China. He talks with Deutsche Welle about his struggle, the country's rights situation and also about Chinese politics.

Deutsche Welle: You were locked up in laogais (prison camps) for 19 years and have since become a prominent activist who has held political talks with a number of countries. Do you think that your involvement has brought about any change?

Harry Wu: Well, fundamental change will happen later when the Communist regime ends. Then the laogai system will also end. But I really made the Chinese authorities nervous when I talked to a reporter in 1993 and I said I want to see the word laogai become a common word in every dictionary in every language. Right away, the Chinese deleted the so-called "Laogai Affairs Department" as an office name. They said "well, that was good for us in our fight for international human rights."

But China has retained the laogai system. China still forces prisoners to undergo "reform through labor," which means brainwashing through labor. Not only political dissidents, but everyone, including criminals, are subjected to forced labor and to brainwashing to become a "new socialist person," to uphold communism. And that is basic situation today in China.

Another change that happened was in 1992, when the Chinese issued an order forbidding prison-made products for export. They forbade Chinese companies from buying the products to sell to foreign countries. But even today, this is a kind of lie. The Chinese continue to do that. But black in white, that became an event.

Your Laogai Research Foundation talks about laogais and also other prominent human rights issues in China, for example the harvesting of organs from executed prisoners, the enforcement of the one-child-policy, censorship and surveillance, etc. For you, what issue is closest to your heart?

I don't care what is the situation today between China and Germany, China and the Britain, and China and America. I don't care about the business they want to do. In the end, they care about money. This is their policy. But human rights should be a major focus. So of course, I hope the laogai system ends. But you do have to know, the laogai system can only end when the Communist system ends. When the Communists are finished, then Laogai will also be done. This is the basic issue.

You were in Germany for political talks in the Bundestag and the foreign ministry in September and you addressed the issue of Tibet. What is your take on the situation there today?

First of all, I think most of these Western governments, including the German and American governments, are really crazy. They never make any political declarations or announcements to condemn the violence. Because these 52 - maybe more - self-immolations is a very serious problem. People are actually setting themselves on fire, burning themselves. For what? For religious freedom. For independence. For their own purposes. This is a very, very horrible situation. But Western governments have been very quiet. I look at the Tibetans, from the men to the women, from the youth to the elderly, everybody is very different from the Chinese - different religion, different culture. And different living area, very different.

The Chinese want to use economic, military and political power to occupy Tibet forever. This is stupid.

What do you make of the scandal surrounding Bo Xilai and Gu Kailai and the power struggle within the party that it has uncovered?

The Bo Xilai and Gu Kailai murder case tells me one fact: the Communist revolution in China is dead. And these people - so-called "Communist Party members" - they are not really Communist Party members. The Communist Party is no longer Communist. If Wang Lijun had not gone to the American consulate in Chengdu, then the case would have been over before it started. They would have said the Brit died because he was drunk - that would have been it.

The Chinese Communists, they murdered so many people - maybe 70 to 80 million from 1949 to today. It is not Communist Party policy to let the people look at it. But the story leaked, it got out. People learned a little bit of the truth.

Do you think China might be in a time of change? Do you see any hope for the system? And will the 18th Party Congress play any role in changing that?

First of all, I do not think the 18th Party Congress will change anything. Why would it? Why would we expect a Communist party to change its policy? If Xi Jinping wants to become president, I have to ask, why can't Harry Wu become president? This is a very common situation - why should Xi Jinping become the leader? Why can't we have another candidate? This is not democracy at all. Why should we expect a dictator country, a dictator government, dictator party to change? If they change at all, it is because the pressure from the international society. They have to change something. So yes, maybe they will change. You have to know, in China today there are protests every day - people are looking for change. They want more freedom, more democracy. And the Communist Party will not last much longer over there.

People have a common goal: everybody wants to have better lives. Everybody wants a good marriage, to have children, respect their parents. They want to have more money, they want a good car, a bigger house. Everybody expects that, whether they are German, French, British. The Chinese are no different. But the Chinese have been misled for a long time, with leaders saying, come, follow me, become a Red Guard, we are going to build a Communist society that will make everybody wealthy. Was it true? It was a lie. It was not true. So it will take some time.

Harry Wu was born in Shanghai in 1937. At the age of 19 he was sentenced to imprisonment in labor camps (laogai), where he spent the following 19 years. Wu migrated to the US in 1985 on invitation from the University of California at Berkeley to be a visiting scholar. He became an activist and in 1992 founded the Laogai Research Foundation.

Interview: Sarah Berning

 

 

Laogai Research Foundation
The Laogai Research Foundation (LRF) was established in 1992 by Laogai survivor, Harry Wu, to gather information on and raise public awareness of the Laogai—China's extensive system of forced-labor prison camps. LRF also works to document and publicize other systemic human rights violations in China, including executions and the harvesting of organs from executed prisoners, the coercive enforcement of China's "one-child" population control policy, and Internet censorship and surveillance. LRF serves as an authoritative source for journalists, researchers, politicians, and other human rights organizations on human rights in China generally and the Laogai and forced labor in China specifically.
Harry Wu, Founder
Laogai Museum Front Desk

Harry Wu knows firsthand the atrocious conditions of the Laogai. In 1960, Wu was imprisoned at the age of 23 for criticizing the Communist Party, and subsequently spent 19 years toiling in the factories, mines, and fields of the Laogai.

He was released in 1979 and came to the US in 1985 with just $40 in his pocket. Since then, he has traveled back to China multiple times to further invesitgate Laogai camps and continue his call for human rights in China.

Wu founded the Laogai Research Foundation in 1992 to gather information on and raise public awareness of the Chinese Laogai.

Mission
LRF's mission is to document and expose the Laogai, China's vast and brutal system of forced labor prison camps, and to promote education, advocacy, and dialogue about China's human rights issues.
History
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Museum
Laogai Museum Front Desk

The Laogai Museum is the first museum in the U.S. to directly address human rights in China. It is the hope of the Laogai Research Foundation that the Laogai Museum will preserve the memory of the Laogai's countless victims and serve to educate the public about the atrocities committed by China's Communist regime. First founded in 2008 with the support of the Yahoo! Human rights Fund, the museum reopened in its present location in 2011, becoming a place for human rights victims and advocates to reach out to a larger audience.

The Laogai Research Foundation
1734 20th Street, Northwest
Washington, DC 20009

We are two blocks north of Dupont Circle Metro's North Exit on the Red Line (corner of 20th and S Streets).

Free 2-hour and metered street parking is available throughout the neighborhood.

Hours of Operation

Monday – Friday 10:00 AM – 06:00 PM
Saturday 10:00 AM – 05:00 PM

(202) 730-9308
laogai@laogai.org
www.laogaimuseum.org

Archives

The Laogai Archives are in the offices of the Laogai Research Foundation in Washington, DC.

Due to the suppression of free speech within China, much of the material housed within the Laogai Archives is not available to researchers in mainland China. Thus, the Laogai Archives are in a unique position to support academics, journalists, students, and activists in freely conducting research on human rights in China.

FAQ
  1. What is the Laogai?
    The Laogai is the People’s Republic of China’s prison system. The name of the system is derived from the Chinese expression, laodong gaizao (勞動改造) meaning “reform through labor”. Generally referred to as labor reform camps (勞改隊), the prison system’s structure was developed by the Chinese Communist Party under Mao Zedong. Modeled on the Soviet Gulag, the prison forces prisoners to do hard labor and gives them “political reeducation” to reform their thoughts and behaviors. The PRC also uses the Laogai as a source of free labor for various work, from infrastructure construction and mining, to farming and manufacturing. Through a variety of prison enterprises, the Chinese government earns income off the backs of Laogai prisoners.
    The Chinese definition of the Laogai entails six components.
    • REFORM THROUGH LABOR CAMPS/BRIGADES (勞改營 OR 勞改隊)
      “Reform through labor camps or brigades” house officially convicted and sentenced criminals.
    • PRISONS (JIANYU)

      In 1994, the Chinese government stopped using the word of “laogai,” instead it restored the traditional name of jianyu (prison). But the nature of the laogai system as a tool of rerpression remains the same.
    • REEDUCATION THROUGH LABOR FACILITIES (勞動教養所OR勞教所)

      “Reeducation through labor facilities” house prisoners under “administrative discipline,” meaning that they may be sentenced to up to three years of forced labor without ever having been charged or tried.
    • DETENTION CENTERS (看守所)

      Detention centers house prisoners who are awaiting trial or have gone through a trial but the sentenced prison term is less than one year. They too can be forced to labor.
    • JUVENILE OFFENDER FACILITIES (少年管教所OR少管所)

      Juvenile offender facilities house adolescent convicts or reeducation through labor detainees. In 1983, a regulation was issued that decreased the age from 16 to 14 years old at which children can be sent to reeducation through labor camps.
    • FORCED JOB PLACEMENT (留場就業)

      These facilities were for prisoners who had served out their sentences but were deemed “not completely reformed.” Such prisoners had to stay in the same prison facility, facing the same conditions, and performing the same work just as when they were formal prisoners. The CCP ceased the forced job placement system in the early 1980s.
  2. How is the Laogai different from other prison systems?
    DIFFERENCE IN PURPOSE

    Because of international attention to human rights violations in the Laogai in the early 1990s, the Chinese Communist Party has attempted to create the impression that the Laogai is only a prison system for detaining, punishing, and reforming criminals. It was for this reason that in 1994, the CCP ordered that Laogai, meaning “reform through labor,” no longer be used in government documents. Instead, the system’s institutions were to be called jianyu, “prison.” However, contrary to CCP propaganda, the Laogai is different from prison systems in other countries. Laogai inmates are forced to labor and forced to do brain wash. What is more, they are unprotected by law, including laws against torture and abuse, as can be seen in the following section “Difference in Conditions.” The Laogai system also strengthens the CCP’S control by suppressing dissent among the Chinese people. The Laogai is an integral part of China’s economy, providing an abundance of free labor for manufacturing goods sold in both domestic and international markets.
    DIFFERENCE IN CONDITIONS: HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES IN THE LAOGAI
    The conditions that persist in the Laogai constitute an additional distinction between it and other prison systems, with the Laogai perpetuating many of China’s most serious human rights abuses.

  3. Who has suffered in the Laogai?
  4. What is the political function of the Laogai system?
    Besides punishing criminals, the Laogai serves as a tool of political repression. China sentences outspoken critics of CCP policy to imprisonment in the Laogai to quell dissent. Suspects punishable by means of laogai or prison terms include the previous “anti-revolutionaries” and present-day “endangering state security” according to the Criminal Law. Suspects punishable by means of Re-education Through Labor according to the CCP’S “Measures for Reeducation through Labor (1957)” include, “counterrevolutionary and anti-socialist reactionaries, whose crimes are minor and not subject to criminal prosecution, and who have been dismissed by government offices, organizations, and enterprises, educational institutions or other units and have no way to make a living.”
    Fear and submission to CCP rule are also perpetuated by recurring “strike hard” campaigns. During these campaigns Chinese authorities implement various penalties, public trials, and previously, public executions, to intimidate its citizens and clamp down on political “crimes”. Trials and sentencing occur rapidly, and those accused of a crime are deemed guilty even before trial. It is under these circumstances that the CCP has continually silenced dissidents.
  5. What is the economic significance of the Laogai?
    Besides being important to China’s communist regime as a tool of repression, the Laogai is also an integral part of China’s economy. Chinese authorities use the millions locked in the Laogai as free labor. Totaling an estimated three to five million, they make up the world’s largest forced labor population. The CCP seeks to use the Laogai for profit.
    Forced labor is seen as another input for economic output. The deliberate application of forced labor by the Chinese government is codified in the Ministry of Justice Criminal Reform Handbook: “Laogai facilities…organize criminals in labor and production, thus creating wealth for society. Our Laogai units are both facilities of dictatorship and special enterprise.” The CCP hopes that by being forced to labor in the Laogai, prisoners will be molded into “new socialist persons.”
  6. Are Laogai goods exported?
    While much of what is produced in the Laogai is consumed domestically, Laogai-made goods also filter into foreign markets by way of third-party trading companies. Recently, rather than attempting to do business directly with foreign companies, Laogai prisons will find a government-owned trading company to act as a middleman and conceal the forced-labor origins of products from importers. Many Laogai prisons also have a second enterprise name; for example, Jinzhou Prison, where Nobel Laureate and democracy activist Liu Xiaobo is believed to be held, also operates under the name “Jinzhou Xinsheng Switch, Co.”, which it uses to market its products to foreign companies over the internet. LRF has evidence that shows Laogai goods repeatedly find their way onto American shelves, despite laws forbidding their importation. Notwithstanding the Chinese government’s claims to the contrary, the CCP encourages exporting Laogai goods.
  7. What is existing U.S. law regarding the importation of Laogai goods?
    Importing forced-labor goods to the U.S. is illegal according to section 1307 of the Tariff Act of 1930. In 1992, the need to confront China about this problem led to the signing of the “Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) Between the United States of America and the People’s Republic of China on Prohibiting Import and Export Trade in Prison Labor Products.” However, China still exports prison labor goods to the U.S. To promote compliance with MOU’s terms, in 1994, the U.S. and China negotiated another agreement: the “Statement of Cooperation on the 1992 MOU between the U.S. and the PRC on Prohibiting Import and Export Trade in Prison Labor Products” (SOC). The SOC defines a mechanism to ensure that China promptly cooperates with U.S. Customs on forced labor inquiries. However, China has done nothing to ensure compliance, and the U.S. never committed resources to enforce the agreement. According to the 1997 “State Department Country Reports on Human Rights,” U.S. Customs unsuccessfully pursued eight standing visitation requests, seven of which dated back to 1995. In all cases, visitation requests were refused or ignored, and allegations were denied without explanation. Cooperation was judged as “inadequate.” In State Department reports from 1999, authorities admit that the MOU has been “nearly impossible” to enforce because China has been “uncooperative.” Throughout the 1990s, only around 20 cases of forced-labor product importation were pursued under the U.S. customs ban. Since 2000, the U.S. government has not attempted to restrict the flow of Laogai goods into the country.
  8. How can I avoid buying products made in the laogai?
    Identifying goods that are made entirely or in part in the Laogai is increasingly difficult. Sub-contracting and complicated global supply chains make discerning the origins of a product daunting. For example, a U.S. clothing maker may contact a Chinese import-export company to find a Chinese plant to cheaply make its clothing. That company may then contract the account to a legitimate Chinese textile firm, which will further sub-contract a portion of the production process to a Laogai camp, where prisoners must fill quotas to earn their food rations, rather than money. Laogai prisoners, toiling in horrible conditions, may also have grown the cotton the clothes are made from. If a product is “made in China” then it is possible it could have been produced in a Laogai.
  9. Should consumers boycott goods made in China?
  10. Are organs harvested from executed prisoners in the Laogai?
  11. What is the "One Child Policy"?
  12. Why do so few know about the Laogai?
  13. What does international law say about the Laogai?
  14. Who is Harry Wu?
  15. What is the Laogai Research Foundation?